Comments on: (Insert Name Here) – Dollars http://www.genomicon.com/2009/08/insert-name-here-dollars/ The Crowd-Sourcing of Intelligent-Design Wed, 08 Feb 2012 01:08:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: admin http://www.genomicon.com/2009/08/insert-name-here-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-754 admin Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:49:59 +0000 http://www.genomicon.com/?p=2770#comment-754 How do you envisage it not working? It's not a matter of lending money to people, it's a matter of issuing promissory notes for things that you provide. The only problem I personally would have is that the service I provide doesn't really come in chunks of less than 250 GBP - I can't really offer someone 5 dollars worth of web development... so I can't casually buy coffee with it. In the late middle-ages it was based on physical commodities - Corn Exchanges etc... and a trustworthy third-party looked after the corn.. to the best of their abilities. I'm sure accidents happened, theft happened... ... but not theft that required trillions of dollars worth of bailouts. Not theft that happens when one person buys a house from another person in your town, hundreds of thousands of dollars in interest payments are siphoned out of the community, never to be seen again. Criminals would find that their currency rapidly becomes worthless. How do you envisage it not working?

It’s not a matter of lending money to people, it’s a matter of issuing promissory notes for things that you provide. The only problem I personally would have is that the service I provide doesn’t really come in chunks of less than 250 GBP – I can’t really offer someone 5 dollars worth of web development… so I can’t casually buy coffee with it.

In the late middle-ages it was based on physical commodities – Corn Exchanges etc… and a trustworthy third-party looked after the corn.. to the best of their abilities. I’m sure accidents happened, theft happened…

… but not theft that required trillions of dollars worth of bailouts. Not theft that happens when one person buys a house from another person in your town, hundreds of thousands of dollars in interest payments are siphoned out of the community, never to be seen again.

Criminals would find that their currency rapidly becomes worthless.

]]> By: CH http://www.genomicon.com/2009/08/insert-name-here-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-753 CH Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:27:18 +0000 http://www.genomicon.com/?p=2770#comment-753 But what about when it doesn't work? Anonymous currency is unsafe for everyone, so it forces people to be wary; I wouldn't like to lend money to friends, even under strict terms; I've even seen someone lend money to a friend (a lot, they where facing bankruptcy) who then skipped town; Bare face criminality isn't the only reason people default, and the best (worst?) criminals don't care anyway. But what about when it doesn’t work?
Anonymous currency is unsafe for everyone, so it forces people to be wary;
I wouldn’t like to lend money to friends, even under strict terms; I’ve even seen someone lend money to a friend (a lot, they where facing bankruptcy) who then skipped town;
Bare face criminality isn’t the only reason people default, and the best (worst?) criminals don’t care anyway.

]]> By: Nick Taylor http://www.genomicon.com/2009/08/insert-name-here-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-749 Nick Taylor Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:32:15 +0000 http://www.genomicon.com/?p=2770#comment-749 @CH - I think Anonymous Currency possibly makes things worse - ie: it shields/distances people from the need to be trustworthy. Our systems desperately need more trust in them - and I think peer-accountablity works pretty well. Look at ebay or trademe in NZ... or Kiva, or Zopa... the personal touch... the reduced degrees-of-separation massively reduce the rate of non-payment. There's this cliche that it's easy to take candy from a baby... not if you have to look them in the eye when you do it, isn't. @CH – I think Anonymous Currency possibly makes things worse – ie: it shields/distances people from the need to be trustworthy.

Our systems desperately need more trust in them – and I think peer-accountablity works pretty well. Look at ebay or trademe in NZ… or Kiva, or Zopa… the personal touch… the reduced degrees-of-separation massively reduce the rate of non-payment.

There’s this cliche that it’s easy to take candy from a baby… not if you have to look them in the eye when you do it, isn’t.

]]> By: CH http://www.genomicon.com/2009/08/insert-name-here-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-748 CH Wed, 09 Sep 2009 17:27:47 +0000 http://www.genomicon.com/?p=2770#comment-748 Wouldn't investing in people just give more reason to resent people if things don't work out. Anonymous currency protects people from such things. Wouldn’t investing in people just give more reason to resent people if things don’t work out. Anonymous currency protects people from such things.

]]> By: John Griogair Bell’s Blog » links for 2009-09-01 http://www.genomicon.com/2009/08/insert-name-here-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-731 John Griogair Bell’s Blog » links for 2009-09-01 Tue, 01 Sep 2009 09:02:36 +0000 http://www.genomicon.com/?p=2770#comment-731 [...] (Insert Name Here) – Dollars | GENOMICON "This is localised currency… each business issues a little bit of its own currency – promissory notes every bit as real as the printed money that is conjured out of nothing by the central bank." (tags: economics landscape identity culture) [...] [...] (Insert Name Here) – Dollars | GENOMICON "This is localised currency… each business issues a little bit of its own currency – promissory notes every bit as real as the printed money that is conjured out of nothing by the central bank." (tags: economics landscape identity culture) [...]

]]> By: admin http://www.genomicon.com/2009/08/insert-name-here-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-730 admin Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:31:00 +0000 http://www.genomicon.com/?p=2770#comment-730 I think with localised currencies the emphasis goes from investing in things to investing in people. You tend to personally know the person who has created the value that is represented in the token. There are echoes of this in Kiva.com - micro-loans (with regrettably, extortionate interest rates) which are far closer to a peer to peer model than channeling dollars through aid-agencies. It would be so much better to buy the products of these people directly than just lend them money though. Distribution is the thing though. The Royal Mail isn't so reliable in Somalia. I think "long-distance" currency is important... we still need it, but we've got to find a way of becoming enslaved by it. I think with localised currencies the emphasis goes from investing in things to investing in people. You tend to personally know the person who has created the value that is represented in the token.

There are echoes of this in Kiva.com – micro-loans (with regrettably, extortionate interest rates) which are far closer to a peer to peer model than channeling dollars through aid-agencies. It would be so much better to buy the products of these people directly than just lend them money though. Distribution is the thing though. The Royal Mail isn’t so reliable in Somalia.

I think “long-distance” currency is important… we still need it, but we’ve got to find a way of becoming enslaved by it.

]]> By: CH http://www.genomicon.com/2009/08/insert-name-here-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-729 CH Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:49:08 +0000 http://www.genomicon.com/?p=2770#comment-729 Investing in things rather than institutions sounds OK, but of course the banks themselves do that kind of trading anyway. On the other hand, they do borrow from the future a lot too. Maybe banks should be limited to value that can be proven to exist *now* i.e. resource-based economy. Investing in things rather than institutions sounds OK, but of course the banks themselves do that kind of trading anyway. On the other hand, they do borrow from the future a lot too. Maybe banks should be limited to value that can be proven to exist *now* i.e. resource-based economy.

]]> By: Shelley Noble http://www.genomicon.com/2009/08/insert-name-here-dollars/comment-page-1/#comment-727 Shelley Noble Mon, 31 Aug 2009 05:12:06 +0000 http://www.genomicon.com/?p=2770#comment-727 I couldn't agree more. You put it so well. I listen to Katherine Austin Fitz for exactly this point of view. Her whole advocacy thrust message is to stop using money to make money and to shift instead to investing directly in sources of food, water, shelter, etc., via local community commerce. Investing in installing your own water line instead of depositing money in a big city bank far away to one day maybe have enough to pay for water from a utility. (While the bank gets rich off using your money to make rotten loans while at it.) <a><Catherine Austin Fitz</a> : "Invest in things that (...) make you more self-sufficient. Build networks and friendships with people you can trade (trust)". I couldn’t agree more. You put it so well. I listen to Katherine Austin Fitz for exactly this point of view. Her whole advocacy thrust message is to stop using money to make money and to shift instead to investing directly in sources of food, water, shelter, etc., via local community commerce.

Investing in installing your own water line instead of depositing money in a big city bank far away to one day maybe have enough to pay for water from a utility. (While the bank gets rich off using your money to make rotten loans while at it.)

<Catherine Austin Fitz : “Invest in things that (…) make you more self-sufficient. Build networks and friendships with people you can trade (trust)”.

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